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<  PVE  ~  What to Raid?

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:59 pm
HonoredPosts: 28Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:45 pm
Hey all,

So, I have been thinking for the past few weeks about the guild’s status for raiding, what the goals are, and the like. Personally, I think we should be sticking with normal modes until we can clear everything consistently, and are setting ourselves up for needless frustration in tackling heroics.

Before the expansion launched, we were (barely) able to clear Garrosh on what is now Heroic mode. A few weeks ago, we were able to down Heroic Mar’gok as well. In both cases, we did so while significantly out-gearing the content. In SoO, we had the advantage of full Heroic gear plus the 4/4 Valor upgrades, which gave the equivalent of a one-tier boost. In this expansion, Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry essentially were two different tiers based on the awarded gear. In Heroic HM, we had the advantage of Mythic HM and Heroic BRF gear from missions, Normal BRF Tier bonuses, and otherwise full H HM / N BRF gear. In other words, we significantly out-geared the Heroic content again.

In my view, both H SoO and H HM were fairly lenient on mechanics, with many fights essentially being gear checks. One or more people could mess up or pull below-average numbers and we would still be ok. For example, Kargath is a very simple fight with low damage and healing requirements, and we were able to easily down him. Once we acquired sufficient gear, the rest of H HM (except for Mar’gok) fell pretty swiftly.

I don’t think these conditions hold true in BRF. Because we do not out-gear H BRF (and don’t have a easy way to do so before the next patch), we have very low margins for error. If one person messes up or does low numbers, we can still be ok, but things consistently fall apart if another falls. As a result, I don’t see us being able to down more than 3 heroic bosses each raid night, and that is if they are all on “farm.”

There is no mechanical difference between Normals and Heroics this expansion — only tighter margins. The significant break comes at Mythic, which is out of the question for our guild for numerous reasons. My question to you all is if the consequences of low margins in Heroics are acceptable? Are you willing to bench others or be benched for consistently failing? Can you accept being chastised or chastising others?

Personally, I’d rather take it easy on Normals, since several bosses still can pose a challenge, and a few good players can make up for a few who are having an off-night. Based on recent history, Normal mode is the difficulty targeted for a more casual raid group as ours. I don’t want to be the “bad guy” in calling out others, and I don’t want to be in a situation where those who are not up to snuff hold the rest back indefinitely.

What are your alls thoughts on what we should raid and what we should do? Note that 6.2 is coming very soon, since much of it is on the background downloader.


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:42 pm
User avatarSite AdminPosts: 221Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:12 pm
I agree with everything you said.

A couple of additional thoughts:

1. I personally am not interested in higher difficulty raids for gear. I'm interested in them for the challenge. I personally feel that until we clear a tier on Normal, we have no business in killing Heroic bosses. I also don't like using Heroic gear to outgear Normal.

2. Our current style of casual raiding means I prefer Normal. If we had a 'hardcore' or 'serious' group I might be interested in it... but that also means that I am 100% fine with being benched. I thought I was a good player, but I just can't put out the numbers that others can so I'm totally fine with being benched. I don't have the patience or drive to reroll or get good on another class/spec. I'd rather PVP than carry 5 people and try to do heroics.

3. We used to lament 10 man raids because we had more than 10 players that were a.) good and b.) serious at progression. Flex raid sizes hurt us in this regard because there is no competition for spots, so everyone can slack off. This sucks.

4. I like discovering the solution/strat to a fight. With the dungeon journal being in-game, I'm not watching videos. I feel like I'm still good enough to adapt to a fight and learn from wipes. I personally feel one of our downfalls is we suck balls at adapting on the fly. When a strat breaks down, or random people get thrown into random situations, we do a very very poor job at figuring it out and usually end up wiping.

TLDR: If we're going to be casual, we should focus on clearing Normal. If we're going to be serious, we should be serious and not carrying people.

My goals regarding raiding:

1. Hang out with friends in a fun environment.
2. Clear content as a guild. I personally don't care about killing bosses or getting gear.

[warlock] [paladin]
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 2:54 pm
User avatarExaltedPosts: 155Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:07 am
My life is going to suck over the next couple of months, and I will be unable to commit to anything further than normal.

Going forward, I would be interested in having a more progressive group, simply due to my competitive nature. If that proves not possible, I know there are new challenges to come with patch 6.2 in terms of mythic difficulty dungeons, not to mention those damn challenge modes.

So I guess at this point in time, I would prefer to have fun raid nights and getting Blackhand down on normal eventually.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:41 pm
User avatarFriendlyPosts: 24Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:07 am
I mostly agree with everything that's been said here. We basically aren't a heroic raiding guild, we don't bench people for numbers or performance, so normal is where we should be. If we are going to just commit to that, i'm ok with it, but lets not decide to try heroic every 3rd raid night just because we have everyone there.(hint: "everyone there" actually makes it harder sometimes due to various reasons, too many healers, not enough melee, too much melee, etc...) Normal does allow for a level of flexibility that heroic doesn't. I'd also like to have a clear night once a week, or even once every other week for gear farming. I'd like to get my tier set. If i'm the only one who cares about getting a 4 pc bonus, just tell me to take a hike, i'm fine with that. But i know i'm not alone in not having more than 2 pieces of tier gear.

my TLDR; I'm ok with committing to just doing normals and getting the whole thing down, and just having fun.

I'm also up for a second group if someone wants to corral people into a heroic group of 10(or more, if people are pulling their weight). we would need 10 SOLID people pulling their weight and doing all mechanics correctly more often than not. I'm ok with being benched just like sal if my damage is too low, or just because i suck at something, or switching back to my dk in 6.2 since i'm far better on my dk than on my mage.


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